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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Apr 24, 2009 11:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG.

a few more facts please

letter to Bob Weir - July, 1998

Vanity Fair's Alex Shoumatoff - mug shot
arrested at Bohemian Grove hiding behind redwood tree
Mug.jpg

Weir and Hart are camping, bunking and sleeping with the enemy (Bush, Rumsfeld, Kissinger, etc). Are these 2 idiots getting behind torture, illegal wars, and crimes against humanity? I was shocked by this news.

I just called and spoke with Mary Moore in Calif. She wrote to Bob in July, 1998. Mary and I agree that this issue is much more about sustainable living and peace on Earth than it is about old growth forests. And how the hell can Mickey get behind Julia Butterfly on one hand, then do this on the other?

I am struggling with this. It's a hard pill to swallow. I disagree with Earl. Jerry's use of a few pieces of lumber have little to do with hanging out with these criminals.

Bob defends himself in this article.

"I walk the talk. I work for the community, and the community works for me. It's been that way for 40-some years now, and it hasn't let me down. I think that what we discovered [in the 1960s] is that community culture is a really good working paradigm."

"It's everybody's duty to stay informed and to participate in the culture," he says when asked about his motives. "What I'm doing is no different from what a lot of other people are doing, I'm just out there doing it, that's all. This is my country, and if I don't make it work, then who is going to make it work? And that goes for you and everyone else, too."

"If you want to stand back and allow everyone who wants wealth and power to run the show, then that's what we'll get."

Shocking!

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 24, 2009 11:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG.

I read the Vanity Fair piece. It's interesting and I had no clue about Mickey's wife or the active stance Bob has taken re the issue. In the end, I didn't understand it from a money angle because, knowing I don't have the facts, it seems like they could make more cash from the credits they'd get and that the logging is not very lucrative (and wholly ignoring the enviro and other issues).

That said, wonder how many chuckles they get when they play Throwing Stones at the Grove - or is that Unbohemian?

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Apr 24, 2009 12:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG.

I forgot to chime in quickly on forest management vs forest fires. The old growth forests keep forest fires in check naturally. They also keep the topsoils in place. When you cut improperly - such as on hillsides, the soil erosion runoffs choke the drainages, creeks, streams and rivers with excess sediments - devasting to fish stocks. Logging road locations is also an important consideration.

As you say, Calif is now experiencing fire season 12 months per year. We now live in The Age Of Mega-Fires. Here's a decent news piece on mega fires.

In fall 2007, "wildfires ripped through Southern California, burning more than 500,000 acres of trees, destroying over 2,000 homes, and claiming nine lives. Scientists now say we should brace ourselves for more and more of these fires in the coming years, because there's been an enormous change in Western fires. In truth, we've never seen anything like them in recorded history."

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 24, 2009 1:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG.

Thanks for getting this back on track...did you notice how somehow I got completely side tracked with various fire ecology theories and such? Great fun, but clearly a misplaced and innocent (are all of mine?) hijack.

OK, scanned the article. Bob is suggesting he rubs elbows with them to help change policy? Seriously?

And he gives 20-33% freebies lately?

Finally, I still don't understand--are the Bohemenians doing anything to their old growth that warrants the discussion of fire ecology, OR are we just (rightly) pissed off at Bob for joining corporate American and the military industrial complex?

IE, are they mis-managing their grove, Monte?

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Apr 24, 2009 1:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG.

Personally - for sure, it's all my fault. I put too much trust and value in them for way, way too many years. Then I elevate them to unrealistic levels without basis or facts. I'm Dead-ass guilty. Obama can't even decide about how to handle people who torture.

Look, waterboarding is when you fill someone's lungs up with water. Period. You fill up their lungs, more and more. It's called drowning. Nothing is simulated. This is torture - along with other brutal and "enhanced" techniques that are horrible. We have made countless new terrorist and enemies by lies, torture, illegal war and occupation, and endless corruption. Pakistan is imploding. We created the Taliban when we fought a counter-insurgency against the Soviets in Afghanistan. We also helped Sadam out when he invaded Iran in 1980. People are upset and pissed off. We are facing severe climate change and a perpetual Ponzi-scheme. How are we gonna do this?

ACLU is right now receiving new documentation and photos in a FOIA (freedom of info act) filing. The pics will be out any time. Claims are being speculated that these pics show of a network of US torture by CIA. All over the place.

I have quoted Jerry here endlessly, as have many others. I'm a freak. I'm living in a time-warp. I still believe in the same core values I had back then. How could Bob & Mickey side with these people publicly?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 24, 2009 1:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG.

Oh, trust me--that part I am on board with! I don't for a minute buy the "change" & "community" & blah, blah, blah...I also KNOW (okay, folks, you have convinced me he changed later, but I need my myth!) that "68 Jerry" would be in the background, as Bobby and Mickey were going thru the entrance to the gated community, saying:

"Don't go for it man! Don't go for it!"

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 24, 2009 2:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG.

"86" jerry would ask them to score some persian?

sorry. couldn't resist.

maybe bob and mickey are really working this from the inside since obama can't get an invite?

... why do I hear pink floyd's welcome to the machine in my head?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 24, 2009 3:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG.

95 Jerry would ask to stop by the drive thru window as well.

You know, Crotalus atrox (one of our esteemed reviewers) regularly consumes up to 33% of its body mass in one meal.

Now, don't tell Miss D, but that would mean I would take my pick up to Mickey Ds, and ask for 136 Big Macs...

Not even Jerry would've done that...he'd have sent Ramrod.